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Date:   Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:38:15 +1000
Reply-To:   "David H. Johnson" <djohnson@WERPLE.NET.AU>
Sender:   "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From:   "David H. Johnson" <djohnson@WERPLE.NET.AU>
Subject:   Re: SAS Program of the Month Club
Comments:   To: Steve Doliov <doliov@WCO.COM>


my remarks about opinions stolen referred to someone in my organisation who had presented material I had prepared, as his own. In no sense did I suggest you had done this, as your note implies.

I think Phils idea had great potential, and still support something similar. I have said many times before, most often where I work, that the lack of professional exchange in a less structured forum is costing us. Some problems are never identified by the sufferer when they occur, and yet they become immediately apparent when another perspective is brought. That is SAS-L's role, and the reason I spend such time here, on my own time. It adds value to, and decreases the time I need for, my work.

Phils idea could provide the stimulus for any number of efficiencies to be included in what we do. That he has been so seriously dissuaded from that goal, by negative responses from here, is a shame. In perspective though, his comment that he had about five supportive comments among a flood of negativity is sad. You are entitled to express your opinion against the idea, if it doesn't suit you, but the silent people who failed to express their support, could have contributed to a venture they might have found valuable.

By the way, splintering is a less than desirable outcome. But segmenting a reference resource from the mainstream discussion had potential, and could have been made to work with some discussion (which includes disagreement) and some good ideas and serious contributions.

Thankyou for expressing an opinion, even though I don't agree with it.

I've copied this back to the list since my remarks might have been seen as a slight against you. They weren't.

David H. Johnson

++: From: Steve Doliov ++: Date: 13/8/1996 10:10:28AM ++: To: David H. Johnson ++: Subject: Re: SAS Program of the Month Club ++: ++: In article <> you ++: wrote: ++: : ++: : There is nothing you can do to stop somebody taking your ++: idea ++: : and putting it up as their own. I have seen this, and ++: suffered ++: : it many times in my professional life, and as recently as ++: : four hours ago. I find the only solution is to quietly ++: grin and ++: : mutter something like "I never did mind about the little ++: things". ++: : ++: : The point is that there are many people who will want to ++: : learn and grow from a free ranging discussion, initiated ++: without ++: : fear of acrimony or humiliation, and pursued with dignity ++: and ++: : humanity. Sadly, many of the 'Net discussion groups fall ++: short ++: : of such an ideal, and this one too on occasion. ++: : ++: perhaps i was wrong to savage the coders club as i did, and ++: if i stole ++: your original criticism, it was entirely by mistake, yet it ++: certainly ++: would have added to the intended irony. ++: ++: what i was tryig to say in the roundabout way, is that i ++: truly like the ++: sas-l. I have made contributions in terms of coding ++: examples that perform ++: useful tasks; and have taken other's coding examples and ++: used them in my ++: contracting work. I never expect people to add a comment in ++: their code ++: saying (this code came from steve doliov), nor do i add ++: attribution ++: comments when i use someone else's code which has been ++: posted on the net. ++: as far as i am concerned, the net is a place to share. ++: whenever one ++: shares, one will encounter the "free-rider" problem, that ++: is, finding ++: someone who will take but not give. too bad for the givers. ++: if the ++: sharing system works well, the grag created by the ++: non-mutuals will not be ++: substantially felt. i have yet to lose a contracting job to ++: somebody who ++: can cut and paste but can't code. ++: ++: i saw absolutely no point in splintering sas-l into two ++: groups, those who ++: belive and continue its ideal and those who like the ++: secretive coders, ++: form their own little clique. ++: that's all, ++: sorry for debasing the usually technically focused ++: discussions. ++: steve doliov ++: ++: ++:

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