SAS may deny that R defeats IML, but since R is a substitute product rather than complement product to IML, in economic sense, I think IML loses ground. As a matrix language, IML is ideal to implement new statistical methods and algorithms. But check how many new stuffs are actually implemented in IML other than R.

It would be very interesting for SAS to do two surveys:

1. The age distribution of active SAS users [those participate regional and SGF]. I observe very a younger R community than SAS [as most are students]. This might be a scary thing for SAS in terms of business if the programming language is only a generation thing. [It might not be, though]. SAS student embassador program can be regarded as a counter-strike from SAS.

2. For those use IML Studio to call R, what they do using IML, and what they do using R. If they only use IML Studio to load SAS data sets into memory and immediately call R to do analysis, then I would say IML definitly loses ground. I guess many will call newly developed R packages that implements new methodologies. For them, it is better off to buy your Bridge to R, instead of IML, hehe

Just my 2 cents

On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:04:22 -0400, Philip Rack <PhilRack@MINEQUEST.COM> wrote:

>I don't know if adding R to SAS/IML Studio means that SAS admits defeat on >the IML product. It might just be easier to embrace R instead of ignoring >it. > >Which leads to this observation. I was out searching Lex Jansen's excellent >site for any papers from the last SGF that discussed using R from inside >SAS/IML Studio and didn't find anything. Could be my search abilities but I >thought that there would have been something along those lines. > >As others have pointed out to me, it's one thing to offer it, but quite >another to encourage its use. > >Philip Rack >MineQuest, LLC >SAS & WPS Consulting and WPS Reseller >Tel: (614) 457-3714 >Web: www.MineQuest.com >Blog: www.MineQuest.com/WordPress > > >-----Original Message----- >From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of oloolo >Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 1:06 PM >To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >Subject: Re: Friday OT: Computer Transitions > >Art > as a matter of fact, I am trying my best to implement some useful data >mining algorithms in SAS, using only SAS/Base and /STAT if possible. I >think this is where we can do our part, but that's do no good to SAS's >business model. Suppose some users is able to provide good enough >alternative to EM... > But as you know, it is much more difficult to implement these algorithms >in SAS than using functional programming languages. > I think one work around is to use JavaObj to move data between SAS/Base >and Java and use Java to implement the algorithms. This is indeed for >hardcore coders. Another way is let SAS to incorporate /IML into SAS/Base >and provide better support for this product [to be frankly, I think the >fact that they provide seamless interface in /IMLStudio to R means they >admit /IML is defeated by R] > > >On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:55:36 -0400, Arthur Tabachneck <art297@NETSCAPE.NET> >wrote: > >>Liang, >> >>First, congratulations on winning the SASLROY award. >> >>As to your reasoning for using R, I don't disagree, but see that as a >>major problem that SAS has to realize and realize the impact. >> >>That leads to my disagreement with your initial comment. Many of us >>have devoted far too much into becoming SAS professionals to simply sit >>back and wait for "the guys at SAS to figure it out first." >> >>The reason I am trying to organize interest in presenting it as a forum >>for SGF11 is to do what I can to get SAS to change their business model >>and become more aware of its users concerns. Yes, we can all simply >>adopt different and more affordable solutions but, in many instances, >>that is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. As a parent, I >>would never do that and, as a SAS user, I don't want to be forced to do >>it. >> >>Art >>-------- >>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:34:02 -0400, oloolo <dynamicpanel@YAHOO.COM> >>wrote: >> >>>Let the guys at SAS to figure it out first >>>I am using R for whatever SAS doens't provide or charges huge fees >>> >>> >>> >>>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:04:42 -0700, Jack Hamilton >><jfh@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG> >>>wrote: >>>>Good point. >>>> >>>>I think we're trying to figure out what SAS needs to do to get past >>item >>>#1. >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Jack Hamilton >>>>jfh@alumni.stanford.org >>>>Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Apr 30, 2010, at 5:40 , Vandenbroucke, David A wrote: >>>> >>>>> Having endured computer transitions from punch cards, CP/M, etc., >>>the "SAS Global Forum" and "R is and Epic Fail" threads remind me of >>this >>>sequence: >>>>> >>>>> 1. It just doesn't address the professional's needs... >>>>> 2. There's too much of an installed base... >>>>> 3. There will always be a place for... >>>>> 4. That's more popular, but I prefer to us... >>>>> 5. It's not too bad once you get used to... >>>>> 6. There are really some clever features... >>>>> 7. Yeah, I used to use that a lot, before... >>>>> >>>>> Of course, there were also technologies that were a flash in the >>pan, >>>which nobody much remembers anymore. >>>>> >>>>> Dav Vandenbroucke >>>>> Senior Economist >>>>> U.S. Dept. HUD >>>>> david.a.vandenbroucke@hud.gov >>>>> 202-402-5890 >>>>> >>>>> I disclaim any disclaimers.