Michael, Joe, et al,

It is also well stated on the sascommunity sas-l page. See: http://www.sascommunity.org/wiki/SAS-L

Art -------- On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:45:22 -0400, Michael Raithel <michaelraithel@WESTAT.COM> wrote:

>Joe, > >Wow; very well stated; and I agree with you 99 and 34/100%! <--Nothing in life is ever absolute:-) > >Hey, I guess that you can actually post something to the 'L without including clever SAS code, after all... > >Hope you have a great weekend! > > >Take Care! > >----MMMMIIIIKKKKEEEE >(aka Michael A. Raithel) > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of >> Joe Matise >> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:47 PM >> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> Subject: Re: Help with SAS code >> >> I think I fall somewhere in between on this one. When I initially read >> the >> posting, I immediately felt somewhat like Gerhard felt; it looked to me >> like >> a request by someone who doesn't know SAS at all and wants someone to >> implement a solution, effectively an unpaid consultant. I however >> didn't >> respond, both because I generally avoid getting into the middle of such >> things, and because I wasn't sure what I felt was correct - just an >> initial >> feeling. >> >> Certainly SAS-L regularly helps people with 'individual problems', >> myself >> included. And for relatively concrete questions, that's exactly how it >> should work; someone doesn't know how to do (something), and asks how. >> >> However, SAS-L is not a destination to obtain unpaid consultants >> [except >> when it is :) ]; and as such, the (something) needs to be fairly >> concrete >> and specific, if you want specific help. And as such, I think the >> problem >> with the initial post was quite simply that he didn't provide code or >> data >> such as to indicate what he wanted to adjust; with the code and data, >> it >> sounds more like every other request we get on the list from a new-ish >> poster. The request for off-board contact for the code was a bit >> off-putting, as it not only requires additional work on the part of the >> responders [a very bad idea, because increasing the necessary energy to >> help >> is like increasing the activation energy of a reaction - makes it much >> less >> likely to get help, out of proportion to the extra energy required], >> but >> also (as Gerhard notes) takes it away from being a 'community' help, >> and >> turns it into exactly as he puts it, an unpaid consultancy. It also >> wasn't >> clear to me that the OP knew anything about SAS, or had a desire to >> actually >> learn how to code in SAS; and while that's not a problem per se, it >> again >> makes me much less interested in helping and continue to wonder if the >> OP >> really just needs a SAS consultant. >> >> That said, I also don't think we should discourage folks from posting, >> just >> because they don't know how to post what we need; then we'd get very >> few >> postings indeed. I think it's much better to respond to the OP of >> anyone >> who doesn't respond with <data> and <code> when applicable and <desired >> results> with a form letter of >> {We are more than willing to help. Please provide a sample (real or >> faked) >> of your in-data, sample results desired, and where applicable any SAS >> code >> that applies to your current problem. Specific questions ("How do I >> transpose this data so that my variables are organized by state", eg) >> will >> be met with specific answers("Do this: PROC TRANSPOSE data=test; by >> state;..."), while more general questions ("How do I design a reporting >> tool >> to display all of my students' grades") will usually be met with more >> general answers ("Use PROC MEANS to summarize your data, and then use >> PROC >> REPORT to display the resulting dataset.").} >> >> Very much wish we could have an initial page like that on the google >> pages, >> or an automated response from the listserv... would avoid things like >> this >> (which are what, 60% of posts, one way or the other?) >> >> -Joe >> >> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Jack Hamilton >> <jfh@stanfordalumni.org>wrote: >> >> > I don't agree with Gerhard Hellriegel's statement that the list is >> not >> > intended to provide solutions to individual problems. >> > >> > My view is that the list members can answer questions however they >> see >> > fit. Sometimes very detailed solutions to very particular problems >> > have been provided; it just depends on who's reading, how much time >> > they have to look at questions, and whether the question is of >> > interest to them. >> > >> > You are more likely to get an answer if you provide a clear statement >> > of your problem, with sample data, and at least a sketch of the >> > desired output. If you are trying to implement a proprietary >> > algorithm, make sure to explain exactly what you want; don't think >> > that we will be able to guess. >> > >> > So I don't think your question was out of line, but you didn't >> provide >> > enough information for anyone who's not a minder-reader to be able to >> > answer it. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jack Hamilton >> > jfh@alumni.stanford.org >> > Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt. >> > >> > On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:21 am, Daniel R Flowers wrote: >> > >> > I apologize for the lack of clarity in the initial email. As I >> >> mentioned, I am new to the list and was not aware of the specific >> >> goals and composition of the list you referenced based on what I had >> >> read from the list homepage. There is code on our end that exists >> >> and we are able to edit and develop. As we didn't want anyone to do >> >> our work, we had tried to make this a more general concept question >> >> (although beginning) then something very specific. I apologize that >> >> this was out of the scope of the listserv and will be happy to >> >> reference other more introductory sources. Thank you for your time >> >> and I apologize for the inconvenience. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Gerhard Hellriegel" <gerhard.hellriegel@T-ONLINE.DE> >> >> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:16:26 PM (GMT-0500) America/ >> >> New_York >> >> Subject: Re: Help with SAS code >> >> >> >> don't know how the others think about that, but many of the people >> >> which >> >> share their knowledge here are consultants. They get their money for >> >> writing applications for customers. It is great that they provide >> >> help for >> >> some sophisticated problems (also for not sophisticated, if there >> are >> >> some), but it is not the goal to do other's work! The only goal is >> >> to help >> >> other's over some obstacles, which prevent them to do their work. >> >> If I read something like "If the current SAS code would be helpful, >> >> feel >> >> free to contact me on an individual basis" I don't have positive >> >> feelings! >> >> One thing is, the code is to big to provide it here. Another is, >> there >> >> seem to be no ideas about concrete problems, only "it does not do >> >> what we >> >> want". A (for me) very important thing is: this list has NOT the >> >> goal to >> >> provide INDIVIDUAL problem solutions, but should give everybody the >> >> chance >> >> to participate. >> >> >> >> I have two "solutions": 1. look for a SAS-base course. 2. make a >> >> contract >> >> with one of the SAS consultants to help you with concrete >> >> applications and >> >> maybe give you enough informations to do it yourselve in future, if >> >> you >> >> have time enough to do so. >> >> >> >> To be not missunderstood: if there is a question like "we have that >> >> kind >> >> of data (example) and want to summarize them with that >> classification >> >> (example) and expect that result (example), but get the following >> >> (example). We tried it with the following code (code-part). How >> >> could we >> >> do that better?" >> >> or >> >> "we have that code and get the following error which we don't >> >> understand... - Why?" >> >> >> >> all that is ok and you'll get the best answers here, also for >> >> beginner's >> >> questions. >> >> >> >> But not like "we want a report with that content, write it for us!" >> >> >> >> All only my personal opinion, maybe others think different. >> >> >> >> Gerhard >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:43:38 -0400, Daniel R Flowers >> >> <dflowers@SAINTMARYS.EDU> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >>> >> >>> This is my first post to the group. Hello! My director and I are >> >>> >> >> relatively new to the world of SAS code as we are more heavy users >> of >> >> SPSS. A SAS code existed in the office before our time that >> generated >> >> course evaluation reports for individual faculty members and >> >> departments. >> >> Essentially, we have code that generates individual reports by >> faculty >> >> member and by department. Within the individual faculty reports, we >> >> show >> >> totals by response and provide an overall comparison to the college >> >> with >> >> averages of all courses offered at the college (as we have a >> standard >> >> evaluation form). We would like to be able to add a departmental >> >> comparison line (so in essence we would have the break-out for the >> >> individual faculty, a comparison to the overall college average, and >> a >> >> comparison to the departmental average). >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Note: The SAS file is pulling from a text file generated from a >> >>> scantron >> >>> >> >> of the evaluation form. >> >> >> >>> >> >>> We have not yet been able to generate code to do this. Any help >> >>> would be >> >>> >> >> much appreciate. If the current SAS code would be helpful, feel >> >> free to >> >> contact me on an individual basis. I very much appreciate any >> advice. >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Daniel >> >>> >> >>