Joe,

Wow; very well stated; and I agree with you 99 and 34/100%! <--Nothing in life is ever absolute:-)

Hey, I guess that you can actually post something to the 'L without including clever SAS code, after all...

Hope you have a great weekend!

Take Care!

----MMMMIIIIKKKKEEEE (aka Michael A. Raithel)

> -----Original Message----- > From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of > Joe Matise > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:47 PM > To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: Help with SAS code > > I think I fall somewhere in between on this one. When I initially read > the > posting, I immediately felt somewhat like Gerhard felt; it looked to me > like > a request by someone who doesn't know SAS at all and wants someone to > implement a solution, effectively an unpaid consultant. I however > didn't > respond, both because I generally avoid getting into the middle of such > things, and because I wasn't sure what I felt was correct - just an > initial > feeling. > > Certainly SAS-L regularly helps people with 'individual problems', > myself > included. And for relatively concrete questions, that's exactly how it > should work; someone doesn't know how to do (something), and asks how. > > However, SAS-L is not a destination to obtain unpaid consultants > [except > when it is :) ]; and as such, the (something) needs to be fairly > concrete > and specific, if you want specific help. And as such, I think the > problem > with the initial post was quite simply that he didn't provide code or > data > such as to indicate what he wanted to adjust; with the code and data, > it > sounds more like every other request we get on the list from a new-ish > poster. The request for off-board contact for the code was a bit > off-putting, as it not only requires additional work on the part of the > responders [a very bad idea, because increasing the necessary energy to > help > is like increasing the activation energy of a reaction - makes it much > less > likely to get help, out of proportion to the extra energy required], > but > also (as Gerhard notes) takes it away from being a 'community' help, > and > turns it into exactly as he puts it, an unpaid consultancy. It also > wasn't > clear to me that the OP knew anything about SAS, or had a desire to > actually > learn how to code in SAS; and while that's not a problem per se, it > again > makes me much less interested in helping and continue to wonder if the > OP > really just needs a SAS consultant. > > That said, I also don't think we should discourage folks from posting, > just > because they don't know how to post what we need; then we'd get very > few > postings indeed. I think it's much better to respond to the OP of > anyone > who doesn't respond with <data> and <code> when applicable and <desired > results> with a form letter of > {We are more than willing to help. Please provide a sample (real or > faked) > of your in-data, sample results desired, and where applicable any SAS > code > that applies to your current problem. Specific questions ("How do I > transpose this data so that my variables are organized by state", eg) > will > be met with specific answers("Do this: PROC TRANSPOSE data=test; by > state;..."), while more general questions ("How do I design a reporting > tool > to display all of my students' grades") will usually be met with more > general answers ("Use PROC MEANS to summarize your data, and then use > PROC > REPORT to display the resulting dataset.").} > > Very much wish we could have an initial page like that on the google > pages, > or an automated response from the listserv... would avoid things like > this > (which are what, 60% of posts, one way or the other?) > > -Joe > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Jack Hamilton > <jfh@stanfordalumni.org>wrote: > > > I don't agree with Gerhard Hellriegel's statement that the list is > not > > intended to provide solutions to individual problems. > > > > My view is that the list members can answer questions however they > see > > fit. Sometimes very detailed solutions to very particular problems > > have been provided; it just depends on who's reading, how much time > > they have to look at questions, and whether the question is of > > interest to them. > > > > You are more likely to get an answer if you provide a clear statement > > of your problem, with sample data, and at least a sketch of the > > desired output. If you are trying to implement a proprietary > > algorithm, make sure to explain exactly what you want; don't think > > that we will be able to guess. > > > > So I don't think your question was out of line, but you didn't > provide > > enough information for anyone who's not a minder-reader to be able to > > answer it. > > > > > > -- > > Jack Hamilton > > jfh@alumni.stanford.org > > Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt. > > > > On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:21 am, Daniel R Flowers wrote: > > > > I apologize for the lack of clarity in the initial email. As I > >> mentioned, I am new to the list and was not aware of the specific > >> goals and composition of the list you referenced based on what I had > >> read from the list homepage. There is code on our end that exists > >> and we are able to edit and develop. As we didn't want anyone to do > >> our work, we had tried to make this a more general concept question > >> (although beginning) then something very specific. I apologize that > >> this was out of the scope of the listserv and will be happy to > >> reference other more introductory sources. Thank you for your time > >> and I apologize for the inconvenience. > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Gerhard Hellriegel" <gerhard.hellriegel@T-ONLINE.DE> > >> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > >> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:16:26 PM (GMT-0500) America/ > >> New_York > >> Subject: Re: Help with SAS code > >> > >> don't know how the others think about that, but many of the people > >> which > >> share their knowledge here are consultants. They get their money for > >> writing applications for customers. It is great that they provide > >> help for > >> some sophisticated problems (also for not sophisticated, if there > are > >> some), but it is not the goal to do other's work! The only goal is > >> to help > >> other's over some obstacles, which prevent them to do their work. > >> If I read something like "If the current SAS code would be helpful, > >> feel > >> free to contact me on an individual basis" I don't have positive > >> feelings! > >> One thing is, the code is to big to provide it here. Another is, > there > >> seem to be no ideas about concrete problems, only "it does not do > >> what we > >> want". A (for me) very important thing is: this list has NOT the > >> goal to > >> provide INDIVIDUAL problem solutions, but should give everybody the > >> chance > >> to participate. > >> > >> I have two "solutions": 1. look for a SAS-base course. 2. make a > >> contract > >> with one of the SAS consultants to help you with concrete > >> applications and > >> maybe give you enough informations to do it yourselve in future, if > >> you > >> have time enough to do so. > >> > >> To be not missunderstood: if there is a question like "we have that > >> kind > >> of data (example) and want to summarize them with that > classification > >> (example) and expect that result (example), but get the following > >> (example). We tried it with the following code (code-part). How > >> could we > >> do that better?" > >> or > >> "we have that code and get the following error which we don't > >> understand... - Why?" > >> > >> all that is ok and you'll get the best answers here, also for > >> beginner's > >> questions. > >> > >> But not like "we want a report with that content, write it for us!" > >> > >> All only my personal opinion, maybe others think different. > >> > >> Gerhard > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:43:38 -0400, Daniel R Flowers > >> <dflowers@SAINTMARYS.EDU> wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >>> > >>> This is my first post to the group. Hello! My director and I are > >>> > >> relatively new to the world of SAS code as we are more heavy users > of > >> SPSS. A SAS code existed in the office before our time that > generated > >> course evaluation reports for individual faculty members and > >> departments. > >> Essentially, we have code that generates individual reports by > faculty > >> member and by department. Within the individual faculty reports, we > >> show > >> totals by response and provide an overall comparison to the college > >> with > >> averages of all courses offered at the college (as we have a > standard > >> evaluation form). We would like to be able to add a departmental > >> comparison line (so in essence we would have the break-out for the > >> individual faculty, a comparison to the overall college average, and > a > >> comparison to the departmental average). > >> > >>> > >>> Note: The SAS file is pulling from a text file generated from a > >>> scantron > >>> > >> of the evaluation form. > >> > >>> > >>> We have not yet been able to generate code to do this. Any help > >>> would be > >>> > >> much appreciate. If the current SAS code would be helpful, feel > >> free to > >> contact me on an individual basis. I very much appreciate any > advice. > >> > >>> > >>> Daniel > >>> > >>