Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:29:21 -0600
Reply-To: Alan Churchill <SASL001@SAVIAN.NET>
Sender: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Alan Churchill <SASL001@SAVIAN.NET>
Subject: Re: Is there life beyond SAS?
In-Reply-To: <CA8F89971ADA9F47A6C915BA23978442011A7F06@MAILBE2.westat.com>
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Sig,
I agree with that. My reference is to the LINQ initiative which will
possibly change the way that SQL queries are built and make them far easier
to write. They aren't going anywhere but they may become easier to master
next year.
For example, instead of:
select * from sashelp.class
It would become (pseudocode):
From sashelp.class
select *
This allows for metadata discovery before having to declare the variables
and that allows for Intellisense.
Hope that clarifies it.
Alan
Alan Churchill
Savian "Bridging SAS and Microsoft Technologies"
www.savian.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Sigurd Hermansen [mailto:HERMANS1@WESTAT.com]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:23 PM
To: Alan Churchill; SAS_learner; SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: RE: Is there life beyond SAS?
Alan:
>Personally, I wouldn't kill myself on learning SQL. There are possibly
some fundamental changes coming along in that area and the language may get
flipped. You need to know it but most SAS people already do.
As you might expect, I disagree with the idea that OOP and XML or other
database storage technology will replace declarative set-logic programming
languages such as SQL. ...or relational database technology.
Queries based in set-logic simply work too well within and across platforms.
Set-logic programs hide the details of implementation from users. OOP and
Web technologies can make it even easier for users by supporting rather than
replacing set-logic programming.
Sig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sas-l@listserv.uga.edu [mailto:owner-sas-l@listserv.uga.edu]
On Behalf Of Alan Churchill
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:07 AM
To: 'SAS_learner'; SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: RE: Is there life beyond SAS?
The basis of all of the hot areas right now is XML. The fastest, best
language to do that in, IMO, is C#. If you just started playing with XML and
the C# parsing, it would go a long way. With those 2 technologies, you can
write add-ins for Enterprise Guide, extend SAP (if desired), web
development, device drivers, games, databases, etc.
My paper on doing your first .NET/SAS application is short, free, and, if
you have SAS already, the other parts are all free. It takes around 30 mins
to an hour and you will have a working demo when you are completed.
Personally, I wouldn't kill myself on learning SQL. There are possibly some
fundamental changes coming along in that area and the language may get
flipped. You need to know it but most SAS people already do.
If you use SAS a lot for data manipulation, I wouldn't do anything further
in SAS until you get down the basics of regular expressions.
Download a copy of Regex Buddy and discover that world. Regex's are also
nice in that every language supports them so the skill is transferable.
If you go down the SAP route, prepared to be onsite whereas an application
developer can work almost anywhere.
Alan
Alan Churchill
Savian "Bridging SAS and Microsoft Technologies"
www.savian.net
-----Original Message-----
From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
SAS_learner
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 9:44 PM
To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there life beyond SAS?
Any road map Alan,
I know this is too broad but I am thinking this way ,
as a (base) SAS programmer we do lot of data step programming using sql
statements,
is it easy to go towards database if so what skill to pick up (eg:
PL/SQL )
is it towards to web based or Microsoft programming using C# and .net
technologies
or it is towards the ERP technologies ( As I hear that SAP is billing is
close to $200/hr ) ,
or pick up a reporting tool ( as SAS is known as reporting tool by some of
the IT guys ) like cognas ,
There are all different kinds of people here working on different
technologies. I know there was thread that was discussing similar topic
"what next .." ......... but most of the people came up with a opinion that
if we can see what would be hot in the market in future they will be rich .
I would like to know from the gurus what would be road map to pick up new
skills in different directions .
On 9/22/06, Alan Churchill <SASL001@savian.net> wrote:
>
> SAS programmers need to invest the time and effort to learn non-SAS
> languages IMO. This is a case where the sum is greater than the parts.
> I can tell you that it is hard but it is definitely worth it.
>
> Alan
>
> Alan Churchill
> Savian "Bridging SAS and Microsoft Technologies"t www.savian.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Martin Mathis
> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:23 PM
> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is there life beyond SAS?
>
> Just for philosophical purposes, I find a variation of the question
> interesting too: Is there life after SAS?
>
> Meaning, where can a SAS programmer (of the data processing kind, not
> science/stats) go, should he ever want to get away from SAS or wants
> to work in an industry/environment that commonly does not have a need
> for SAS or can not afford SAS?
>
> Sure, I have other programming experience - a lot self-taught w/o a
> formal degree - most of which is either from too long ago or doesn't
> constitute a full-time skill to qualify for employment (especially
> with roughly equivalent pay), or then "does not count" as the
> experience is "only" from freelance/hobby.
>
> I thought a few times that once you have that "SAS stamp" imprinted on
> your forehead, it's very hard to be seen as anything else.
> Also not too easy to switch to the mindset of more engineering/design-
> oriented languages (e.g. C flavors or object-oriented).
>
> I guess my 2 cents are, SAS seems enough of a niche skill that non-SAS
> employers tend to not give you credit for ("can't use you").
>
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:02:17 -0400, Peter Constantinidis
> <peter@CONSTANTINIDIS.CA> wrote:
>
> >All this is interesting because the licenses are really quite
> >expensive. Mine was $4500 cdn for a year I believe. So keep
> >multiplying that by a # of people and it becomes a vast sum. Much
> >like a previous job I worked at when the VP of Tech decided
> >Blackberries were too expensive back when they were new to the
> >market, thus creating a sad funereal pile of 17+ BB's on his desk.
> >
> >Anyways, analyzing what I personally use SAS for, I primarily use
> >only the proc freq, and report/print functions along with your usual
> >garden variety data step manipulations. I don't actually use it for
> >statistical analysis as I'm not in science. I use SAS because that's
> >what my boss uses and I didn't arrive with any prior preferences. My
> >coworker uses R&R reports to do the same job that I use SAS for (and
> >his reports look nicer). A previous coworker used MS Access. As a
> >comparison, R&R is $500. I forget if that's to buy, or a license fee.
> >So, $4000 cheaper right there.
> >
> >I have often thought that the data step functions could be easily
> >substituted with any dynamic scripting language like Ruby or LISP,
> >and it should be fairly straightforward to clone all of Base SAS as a
> >hobby by writing libraries to duplicate procedures like proc freq
> >etc. if one cared to do so enough.
> >
> >This would depend on the job you are in. If you're in science, it
> >would be very hard to stop using SAS due to the vast library of
> >functions. But all my job is, is to produce HR related reports using
> >data that mostly came out of Peoplesoft. It didn't *have* to be SAS
> >that was used. It could have been anything, as long as someone wrote
> >the right library to use.
> >
> >That's my 2 cents.
>
