Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:50:35 -0700
Reply-To: jfh@stanfordalumni.org
Sender: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Jack Hamilton <jfh@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG>
Subject: Re: SAS Pricing (was Re: SCL Questions (hijacked thread))
In-Reply-To: <064a01c6b1d1$7dda2f50$6502a8c0@speedy>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Are you willing for SAS-L to get another 500 posters per day from
people who don't know how to spell "data"?
Perhaps a policy like "We will sell you a single PC SAS license for
$500 if you have completed base SAS certification, taken two classes
from SAS Institute, or given a paper at SUGI or regional conference;
otherwise it will be $5000" would make SAS more availble without making
technical support impossible.
--- Kevin Myers <KMyers1@CLEARWIRE.NET> wrote:
> Unfortunately I won't be able to make SESUG. I haven't even ever
> been to a
> SUGI yet. :-((
> Long story... Hopefully that will change one of these days!
>
> I agree that the customer support issue is a potentially worrisome
> aspect of
> opening up SAS to a much larger audience. However, it seems that
> issue
> could be managed with an appropriate combination of pricing
> structure,
> software subset, and customer support policies. For example, a low
> cost
> version of the software might come with almost *no* customer support
> (just
> like similar offerings from SAS competitors). That would be one of
> the
> issues that customers would have to weigh in their decisions as to
> whether a
> full fledged SAS license or a more restricted version was right for
> them.
>
> I wouldn't ever seriously suggest putting anything more than a
> time-limited
> trial version of SAS software in the extremely low cost or give-away
> categories. However, a personal/small business version of SAS that
> was
> priced more along the lines of full versions of Windows and Office
> (say
> averaging a few hundred dollars per SAS product) would probably be
> low
> enough for most individuals and small businesses who could really
> make use
> of SAS to give it serious consideration, while at the same time being
> high
> enough to keep the worst of the riff-raff out.
>
> s/KAM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Whitehurst" <joewhitehurst@gmail.com>
> To: "Kevin Myers" <KMyers1@CLEARWIRE.NET>
> Cc: <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 5:44 PM
> Subject: *****SPAM***** Re: SAS Pricing (was Re: SCL Questions
> (hijacked
> thread))
>
>
> > Kevin,
> >
> > If you will be in Atlanta for SESUG, let's get together and swap
> war
> > stories. Except for working directly for SAS Institute, my
> > experiences with SAS are a lot like yours. Do you know anything
> about
> > the laws of unintended consequences. SAS Tech Support is widely
> > acknowledged as among the best in the software industry and is
> free.
> > What do you think would happen if SAS opened the flood gates by
> > selling its software to many who fail to qualify as even an idiot?
> > Even morons might have enough money if SAS made its software cheap
> > enough.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > On 7/27/06, Kevin Myers <KMyers1@clearwire.net> wrote:
> > > Hi Joe,
> > >
> > > Just because someone or something does well doesn't mean there
> isn't
> room
> > > for improvement. Yes, Goodnight and company have done very well
> at
> selling
> > > SAS to large companies and government entities. But that doesn't
> mean
> SAS
> > > couldn't do better. They have done absolutely *nothing* in the
> > > individual/small business market, and as a result have largely
> failed at
> > > achieving significant name recognition other than among a
> relatively
> limited
> > > group of industry specialists.
> > >
> > > I have been a SAS champion at a major corporation with hundred of
> SAS
> > > licenses on multiple platforms. I have been an independent
> consultant.
> I
> > > have been both a consultant and developer at SAS Institute. And
> I have
> been
> > > (am) a struggling small business owner who *knows* that SAS would
> be
> very
> > > useful for my own business, but can't afford it (yet...). In
> every
> > > position, I have had to fight the battle of proving the worth of
> SAS
> > > against competing products with much larger market shares, more
> well
> known
> > > names, and often lower prices. Sometimes I was successful, and
> sometimes I
> > > wasn't. But in every single situation I can absolutely guarantee
> that
> the
> > > more widespread usage and familiarity with SAS which could be
> brought
> about
> > > by a lower priced version of the software would have *greatly*
> helped
> the
> > > situation by providing more people who could have expressed
> familiarity
> with
> > > and voiced support for SAS products.
> > >
> > > Microsloth, Oracle, and others sell (or even give away) lower
> cost
> versions
> > > of their high dollar software to help spread familiarity and
> increase
> > > comfort levels
> > > with their products, which encourages more and larger subsequent
> purchases.
> > > Although SAS has done well, MS and others have done even better,
> with
> more
> > > employees, more sales, and more revenues.
> > >
> > > So, yes, I dare to rock the boat in an attempt to bring SAS to an
> even
> wider
> > > audience, and I will continue to do so at every opportunity.
> Just like
> you
> > > with SCL. :-)
> > >
> > > s/KAM
> > >
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Joe Whitehurst" <joewhitehurst@gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Kevin Myers" <KMyers@procominc.net>
> > > > Cc: <SAS-L@listserv.uga.edu>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 4:03 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: SCL Questions (hijacked thread)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Kevin,
> > > > >
> > > > > You are much bolder than I. I wouldn't think of giving
> business
> > > > > advice to Jim Goodnight who has almost single handedly ( no
> board to
> > > > > retard his progress) led a business enterprise from a start
> up with
> 6
> > > > > employees and a handful of customers to a multi-billion
> dollar
> > > > > enterprise with more than 40,000 customers and 10,000
> employees
> while
> > > > > experiencing double digit growth for every one of 30 years,
> remained
> > > > > debt free and operated profitably every one of those 30
> years, I
> > > > > don't know for sure, but I guess his success is unparalleled
> in
> human
> > > > > history. And he doesn't sell oil or snake oil.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/27/06, Kevin Myers <KMyers@procominc.net> wrote:
> > > > > > "Joe Whitehurst" <joewhitehurst@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > These tools are available at a very reasonable price in
> the
> SAS/AF
> > > > > > > product.
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On soapbox...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For larger and well established businesses, the price of AF
> (and
> other
> > > > SAS
> > > > > > products) may in fact be quite reasonable. Unfortunately
> for most
> > > > > > individuals and small businesses, and even some larger
> start-ups,
> the
> > > > cost
> > > > > > simply remains too high (or is at least perceived to be so
> versus
> much
> > > > lower
> > > > > > cost competing products), whether or not having the SAS
> products
> could
> > > > > > generate a nice ROI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope that SAS will come to realize sooner than later that
> they
> are
> > > > missing
> > > > > > out on a very large market by failing to provide a much
> more
> > > affordable
> > > > > > offering geared toward individuals and small businesses.
> Something
> > > > similar
> > > > > > to Oracle Personal, for example. The current Learning
> Edition is
> far
> > > > too
> > > > > > restricted to be of any real use other than
> teaching/verifying
> syntax.
> > > > It
> > > > > > is important that a more capable lower end offering only be
> limited in
> > > > ways
> > > > > > that would primarily affect larger businesses, such support
> for
> > > > > > multi-processor servers, multi-disk data sets, perhaps some
> level
> of
> > > > shared
> > > > > > updating, and other "enterprise" class capabilities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps the most important advantage for SAS that would be
> obtained by
> > > > > > creating a line of products geared toward individuals and
> small
> > > > businesses,
> > > > > > is NOT simply the additional income that would be obtained
> from a
> very
> > > > large
> > > > > > number of potential sales to these smaller entities.
> Rather it
> would
> > > be
> > > > the
> > > > > > creation of many more SAS experts and champions, and much
> more
> > > > widespread
> > > > > > knowledge of and familiarity with the SAS System. That
> would in
> turn
> > > > > > generate much greater SAS interest and acceptance in the
> world of
> big
> > > > > > business, resulting in even greater sales to larger
> companies.
> > > > Availability
> > > > > > of the SAS Learning Edition does *NOT* effectively
> accomplish
> these
> > > > goals,
> > > > > > because people aren't going to bother learning SAS unless
> and
> until
> > > they
> > > > > > know that they have a reasonable chance of actually getting
> to use
> SAS
> > > > for
> > > > > > some real world purpose. And currently, that simply isn't
> an
> option
> > > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > vast majority.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Off soapbox.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > s/KAM
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
---
Jack Hamilton
Sacramento, California
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