Date:         Fri, 5 May 2006 13:55:45 +0000
Reply-To:     toby dunn <tobydunn@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:         toby dunn <tobydunn@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Training Wheels
Comments: To: Flom@NDRI.ORG
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

I have avoided these little posts like the plague but perhaps its time I
tempt fate.  Perhaps I can explain it to Joe in terms he will understand or
perhaps I will try and fail.

Every descriptive word has both a connotative and denotative meaning.  More
often than not the connotative meaning is the one that people react to.  If
one does not wish to evoke a reaction one should choose words that at the
very least have a some what neutral connotative meaning.



Toby Dunn





From: Peter Flom <Flom@NDRI.ORG>
Reply-To: Peter Flom <Flom@NDRI.ORG>
To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Training Wheels
Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 09:42:14 -0400

 >>> Joe Whitehurst <joewhitehurst@BELLSOUTH.NET> 5/5/2006 9:23 am >>>
<<<
Peter,

Toddler, one who walks with short, uncertain steps seems like an appropriate
way to describe anyone's behavior when attempting something completely new
like learning a new programming language.  We are all toddlers in some
context, so I don't quite understand why you think this is in any way
insulting.  Would you mind explaining for this Java toddler?
 >>>

Sure, I will try to explain.

We agree that everyone starts as a beginner, or novice.  No one, after all
is born knowing SAS.

Why do I (and apparently others) find 'toddler' insulting where 'novice'
would not be?  Well, a toddler isn't JUST someone who is learning to walk;
you wouldn't, for example, call someone recovering from a stroke a
'toddler'.  Toddlers are young kids.  It implies not just someone who is
learning to walk, but someone who behaves like a 1 or 2 year old, thinks a 1
or 2 year old, and so on. "novice' and 'beginner' do not have these
implications.

And, as the father of a kid who was very recently a toddler, I can say that
not even toddlers like to be called toddlers, they want to be called 'big
boys' (or girls, of course).

So, after your explanation, I realize you didn't mean it this way, but in
the context of your post, it seemed like you did (after all, toddlers are
also known as visceral reactors and so on)

Regards

Peter