Date:         Fri, 2 Nov 2001 12:09:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Ray Pass <raypass@ATT.NET>
Sender:       "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:         Ray Pass <raypass@ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: IRC SAS Channel
In-Reply-To:  <B8082C13.2C536%barry@rustybrick.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed

I'm still gonna weigh in on David's side here in terms of the need for this
thing, but since the newbie has already set it up, I guess we'll see just
how useful it is.  I predict it will fade away soon due to non-usage.  How
about a report back to the list in a week or so with a progress report?

Ray



At 10:55 AM 11/02/2001 -0500, Barry Schwartz wrote:
>I am surprised.
>
>I understand why you feel it might be more of a problem that a benefit.  But
>I disagree.  Although I am in college, I run a web development company and
>have made many web sites for large corporations.  I have business associates
>as well as friends who use this to communicate, with or without the
>permission of the IT dept.  I would bet that if your company is large enough
>that people are using IRC right now.
>
>I strongly disagree to your statement that IRC would hamper anyone's
>productivity.  I know for a fact that it is the direct opposite.
>
>Again, I am not on a "College chat system."
>
>There are millions of programmers already using IRC to help them everyday.
>Many programmers work in large corporations.  I am not saying anything new,
>it is all out there already.
>
>I am sorry that you donąt feel the same, it can be such a benefit to have
>you - experience SAS programmers - on the channel.  Please donąt forget - in
>these times - when it comes to the internet commercial realities rarely
>stand in your way.
>
>------------------
>   Barry
>
> > From: DavidJohnson@halifax.co.uk
> > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 15:33:49 -0000
> > To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU, barry@RUSTYBRICK.COM
> > Subject: RE: IRC SAS Channel
> >
> > Barry's last email is copied below.
> >
> > SAS-L Digest - 2 Nov 2001 - Special issue (#2001-1364)
> >
> > Barry,
> >
> > perhaps I didn't express some of my reservations clearly enough, you don't
> > seem to ackowledge the points I made.
> >
> > As an employer (previous life), I would not have been at all happy that a
> > 'Chat' connection was open between one of my team and the outside world.
> > It's irrelevant what that chat channel is for, it remains something that is
> > a distraction.  For most people it would indeed be a means of obtaining and
> > giving help, and while I could reconcile myself to there being a balance
> > between the two, as well as a training benefit, my first priority would
> > remain the work I required to be done.  From experience of terminal
> > messaging within a mainframe, (an older but probably not too dissimilar
> > technology), I know that less than half of the traffic was task related.
> >
> > I would accept that while a job is running, a staff member might deal
> with a
> > SAS issue, for reasons detailed above.  But I would not allow the priority
> > of that persons day to be determined by whomever happened to pop up with a
> > problem.  You will encounter "old generation users" like me who had to get
> > used to not being able to call our colleagues and friends in other support
> > areas directly.  Their managers wanted their team's workflow handled by a
> > Help Desk system, not dictated by an 'old boy' with a problem on a
> > particular project, who knew someone and could jump the queue.
> >
> > As an IT services person, I would have to structure the company's
> > connections to the Web to allow for this increased traffic, and pay for it.
> > I would also have to be sure that there were no vulnerabilities in the
> > system... no small effort in itself.  Otherwise this open IP connection
> > would become a very convenient portal for some bored sociopathic 'script
> > kiddie' to deliver payloads onto the system, or use the system as a
> platform
> > to hit other sites.  How many IT directors are going to pay the costs or
> > allow the vulnerability?
> >
> > It might work in college, but tell me: how many of your lecturers make
> > themselves available on an internal College chat system?
> >
> > If in the face of all this, you find you have a lot of support, then I
> > congratulate and commend you.  But quite frankly, I doubt that many people
> > or organisations will be able to participate.  If you don't get the support
> > you wanted, don't assume the group is lethargic, closed to new ideas or
> > unsupportive, because that isn't the case in this group.  Consider instead
> > the commercial realities that stand in your way.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> >
> > David Johnson
> > *     07092 25 9556
> > *     sasuser@dkvj,co.uk
> > *   http://www.dkvj.co.uk
> > This message is attributable to the sender and does not necessarily reflect
> > the view of Halifax Group plc or its subsidiaries.
> >
> > Date:    Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:09:57 -0500
> > From:    Barry Schwartz <barry@RUSTYBRICK.COM>
> > Subject: Re: IRC SAS Channel
> >
> > There has been some interest in the channel being setup.  Again, most
> > programming languages have IRC channels (chat rooms) devoted to them, why
> > shouldnąt SAS?  The reason I am pushing for this is because I am new to
> SAS,
> > taking a course in college and hope to be the "new" generation of sas
> > programmers.  When I had a problem with SAS I first went to IRC and
> searched
> > for a SAS channel, I was amazed not to find anything.  The web sites are
> > great and the list is awesome, the IRC channel will compliment them all.
> > This is the right step for SAS programmers, if you know how to use SAS I am
> > sure you can figure out how to use IRC.
> >
> > Here is what to do.  The goal is to have people active in the room all
> > around the clock.  Some will be idling (not active) but in the chat
> room and
> > others will sign on once and a while to get help.  I will need to give
> > certain people with knowledge in IRC operator status so they can help me
> > monitor the room.  If you interested in that email me.
> >
> > Um...There is no reason to reproduce what has been done.  If they are using
> > a pc tell them to go to www.mirc.com and download the client.  Then
> there is
> > a how to everything there.
> >
> > When setting the client up choose the efnet server I recommend using
> > irc.prison.net or irc.east.gblx.net.  It says how to do this on the web
> > site.  Also, when they connect to the network they will have to join
> the SAS
> > chat room.  There is a join button or you can simply type /join sas.  There
> > are helpful channels for beginners like irchelp and one would join that by
> > hitting join and typing irchelp or by typing in the input window /join
> > irchelp.
> >
> > Get it?
> >
> > Let me know if you want more info.
> >
> > PS.  Mac users should use www.ircle.com as an IRC client.
> >
> > ------------------
> > Barry Schwartz
> > RustyBrick
> > barry@rustybrick.com
> > www.rustybrick.com
> > 845.352.3707
> >
> >> From: DavidJohnson@halifax.co.uk
> >> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:04:38 -0000
> >> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU, barry@RUSTYBRICK.COM
> >> Subject: RE: IRC SAS Channel
> >>
> >> An extract of one of many exchanges on this subject is copied below.
> >>
> >> SAS-L Digest - 1 Nov 2001 - Special issue (#2001-1362)
> >>
> >> Barry,
> >>
> >> I applaud your approaching the issues of SAS Support in looking for other
> >> alternatives.  I think many alternative means of support are needed and
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Halifax plc, Registered in England No. 2367076.  Registered Office: Trinity
> > Road, Halifax, West Yorkshire HX1 2RG. Represents only the Halifax
> Financial
> > Services Marketing Group for the purposes of advising on and selling life
> > assurance, pensions and unit trust business.  The Marketing Group is
> regulated
> > by the Personal Investment Authority.  Switchboard 01422 333333.
> >
> >
> ==============================================================================
> >
> >

*------------------------------------------------*
| Ray Pass, Ph.D.         voice: (914) 693-5553  |
| Ray Pass Consulting      eFax: (914) 206-3780  |
| 5 Sinclair Place                               |
| Hartsdale, NY 10530    e-mail: raypass@att.net |
*------------------------------------------------*